Hypocrisy abounds!! Timothy Robbins – of Shawshank Redemption fame – shame on you. And Susan, wonderful work in The Rocky Horror Picture Show — the closest you should have ever come to politics was banging Barry Boswtwick ( the Mayor in Spin City). Is that a condom in your hair?

You guys are wonderful on the big screen. I watch your movies to enjoy stories that you tell. Or that writers tell you to convey. If you want me, and many other americans, to spend our money on your movies — stick to fiction. Your political views don’t impress me at all.

Tim, you and your cronies don’t stop at anti-war. In speech after speech after speech you are anti-America. You come off criticizing the country. You don’t stop at criticizing the war. You don’t stop at criticizing the president. You criticize the country.

TIm, what do you think of what Abraham Lincoln did to due process back in 1860 in the Civil War era or what FDR did to due process in the midst of World War II? You probably don’t know what I’m referring to.

Basically, read from scripts that your consultants tell you to — don’t ad-lib. You aren’t smart enough.

And Natalie, stick to the lyrics — unless it rhymes, your words make no sense and speak to your lack of education.

Oh… that IS hilarious! Kind of like the end of “Gilligan’s Island”, where every one chases each other at the end…? :0)

But I have no doubts in my mind this soap opera has a little more mileage in it. I’ve got to update that new tidbit of info.

Anti-war people are complaining about their right to free speech is being infringed upon, Boycott Hollywood is complaining that their freedom of speech is being infringed upon (and their own medicine doesn’t taste very good, does it? I don’t feel the least bit sorry for them, either. If you can’t take it, then don’t be dishing it out.), we should boycott this…wait a minute…we should boycott this instead…What’s a person supposed to do?

I have an idea. Let’s just boycott everything.

[removes tongue from cheek.]

They usually are, Scooter.
Trust me, I have quite an impressive collection of Cease & Desists over the years… To actually pursue me on one of them would cost thousands in legal fees…

Can you comment about France?

LOL! And to think all this crap with the Dixie Chicks because one of them said “She was ashamed to be from the same State as Bush”??? Hmmm… I wonder if it works the other way…?

Hey I’m ashamed to be in the same state at Rick Santorum…SUPPORT ME!!!!!!

Seriously. This whole thing is so dumb. Were these celebrities being photographed, with the Republican Guard? Visiting POWS and calling them “War Criminals”? No. It’s just U.S. citizens speaking their mind. This Boycott bullshit is just another product by people with too much time on their hands.

When one of them reaches “Hanoi Jane” status, let me know.

*Spits on the way out.*

I certainly don’t hate Rick Santorum. He’s just the politician-with-his-foot-in-his mouth du jour, and I’m just having fun with him, that’s all…

And yeah, Alec Baldwin *did* say he was leaving the country if Bush was elected, didn’t he? Hmmmmm… will file that away for later ridicule.

I think we should have a quiz, on what celebrity said what. My big problem on the web is this “follow the crowd and bash the ‘anti-american celebrity’ for what they said”… I guarantee you half of them don’t even know what they’re so riled up over. (I admit I see those names bashed everywhere, and have no idea… Jeanine Garafalo seems to have people *exceptionally* riled up.)

Bruce Willis was so gung-ho about the war, he wanted to go over and fight… does that change my opinion of him? Hell no, I fucking love the guy!!!

I’m confused… we agree everyone has the right to an opinion, and boycotts are stupid… what was I wrong about? :0)

You are left — so you must be right.

Heh. You narrowmindedly or with prejudice blew off what these celebrities did. And suggest it was simply a comment on who lives in their state.

Puuuuuuhlease -e-. Give us and yourself more credit than that. They were trying to ride the anti-war sentiment to the top in Europe, Now they are getting naked and trying to sell records.

They are screwed. If they weren’t, they would have not banned the refunding of money on their U.S. tour.

Janeane is right. War wasn’t necessarily the best choice. Diplomacy failed. What can you do.

She said -”It’s testosterone that is driving this war.” “It’s a lust for oil.” “They’re lying to us.” ANd then she tried to take it back. Say what you feel — and stick to it. For that, I give Natalie credit — too bad she took two people down with her stupid comments.

Was Bill even keeping us abreast of the Monica Missiles? Or did we forget aboput his endless Iraqi bombing raids.

Where were the lefty hollyweirds then? Oh, thats right, They liked good old Billy.

LOL! Makes you wish that troll that threatened to take you blog to *your* boss, was around to see this, huh, Maria…? :0)

Nah Seriously. Patrick hosts this site as well as Carole’s, and Tina’s, and well, half of Stroudsburg. We have a pretty good relationship, even if we disagree on a few political things.

1) Yes… you have a good point that Natalie Maines said her remark overseas. That was a mistake.

2) No, I did not forget about Clinton, or the carpet bombing of Iraq in 1996 (which was over the attempted assasination of King George the first, I might add…), or Kosovo, or Somalia… and who could ever forget Monica! Mrrrowwwwr…

3) Actually, I think the Dixie Chicks probably pulled the most brilliant PR stunt since some freak dangled his baby over a rail… there’s no such thing as bad press, and they’ve proven it. How do I know this? Even I was tempted to buy the new Dixie Chicks CD… and I HATE country music!

So there.

You got it bro…. :0)

Seriously, I don’t care about the boycotts. I find them amusing in a train wreck sort of way.

The people who should REALLY have been upset at Natalie Maines’ comments were Lipton (the sponsors of their tour), Sony (their record label) and their agent. The Dixie Chicks were working when she made those comments and she did something that has the potential to cost her employers serious revenue in the future, not to mention all the bad publicity. The people making all the noise are not the ones you need to worry about. They will scream and cry and get over it fairly quickly. It’s the people who won’t say a word but still to this day will not buy German even though WWII has been over for a very long time. (I know some of these people.)

Personally, I don’t care what she says on her own time. I don’t even care what she says when she’s working. But I can understand if her employers choose to cease employing her on the basis that she is no longer performing her job to their specifications.

The day I have freedom of speech with freedom from consequences at work is going to be a beautiful day, but it’s not here for me and it’s not here for them either.

Where was the anti-war sentiment during Clinton? It was there and almost as ignored then as now. Most bombings there were covered poorly anyway and used to make sure Saddam continued to control only a portion of his own country. But the sentiment also included a stance against sanctions, now debunked (Albright can go to hell). It’s useless to even go there, since my point is that the Dems are Reps Lite and voters (except uncounted ones in Florida) decided to go for the real thing.

Read the ‘golden shower’ joke again. Unless you think it’s good to be pissed on (though I guess you can drink it like Kool-Aid). I’m not likely to buy Bush’s single term stay as a reason for Clinton’s wave riding anymore than Clinton having anything to do with rampant IPO con jobs popping the IT bubble. Wait a sec. Gore did ‘take initiative in creating the internet’ so I guess you can start your spin from there. If partisan tunnel vision is what passes as fact, then I’m afraid I’m screwed since I’m the type of guy willing to pee in both parties’ pools.

Lastly, I find the “sponsor’s dime” bit funny. I’m sure it factors into the music itself too. So recording artists must be limited to singing their views rather than expressing them all the time like everyone else. I don’t expect celebrities to behave differently just because they got a camera pointed at them from how I would behave. Why must politics be a special case of separation and silence? They represent the artist and the artist alone. If they signed away their right to speak on politics, then I’d agree with your point. The whole thing is absurd. It’s not like celebrity opinion has any bearing on our national security. Non-famous People can come to their own opinions just a easy as they can and it is part jealously that is driving this big stink.

“The day I have freedom of speech with freedom from consequences at work is going to be a beautiful day, but it’s not here for me and it’s not here for them either.”

I for one hope that NEVER happens. That was really the entire point of this post.

Our “free” speech comes with a price tag. it always did. Sarandon and Robbins *know* that their views are costing them certain appearances and gigs, yet they continue. Oday Hussein and his remark about “Americans whining about 9/11″ bought him a few cluster bombs with his name on it. Saddam’s post-9/11 remarks about our foreign polices bought him a few too. Natalie Maines criticized the President in a country where an overwhelming majority of people disagree with the decisions of their prime minister. And a website, dedicated to criticizing and boycotting critics of the war in hollywood, is now under attack by an agency whose best interest is served by their clients continuing to make revenue…

Yet everyone is whining that their “freedom of speech” is being hampered?

No, it isn’t. Your words are now stirring up a reaction. An adverse one that you probably weren’t expecting.

“Freedom of speech” does not mean you have the right to run our mouth and everyone has to sit there and take it. Quite the opposite. People have the right to react to it as well… Like the President said to Natalie Maines: “Freedom works both ways”.

Our “free speech” comes with a price tag. That’s the object lesson here. Not who’s right and who’s wrong for what they said…

(This public service announcement has been brought to you by the “One who has had his ass handed to him for his remarks many, many times… and never hid behind the First Amendment during the backlash.”)

I know that’s why they did so well. That and that the Nader voters forgot we can’t seem to manage more than a 2-party system.

I can seem to be a lot of things, but not as one that thinks Clinton had responsibility for the economy during his terms and not one to hold to the fantasy that anything would trickle down if Bush got everything he wanted. Eliminating the Estate tax is a sure-fire way to see it remains as little a trickle as possible. I just don’t see the point in catering to the uppermost class instead of fueling the creation of small businesses. A consumer driven economy needs a strong middle-class and that means setting up entry ramps rather than catering to the established players. I would rather have a chance to do it myself, than wait for it to trickle down.

Hmmm, Enron was a horse race between both parties in getting money out of them for favors. The last I read about it, the Reps were winning, but I wouldn’t count the Dems out of the race until the ink dries on the Enron verdict. But as I said, I see little difference between the two other than the Dems seem to come cheap, which suggests they are incompetent at being liberal and being corrupt.

*whoosh*
(The sound of Eric’s point going everyone’s head)

I recall quite a bit of Clinton-bashing in the web community… the trail of dead bodies every time a witness was called up to testify against Hillary & co. in Whitewater. The rumor that every “w” was removed from typewriters, and fine china was stolen by the “trailer trash administration”.

I don’t think the Republicans are getting a “bad rap”, while everyone stayed silent about the Clinton administration…

In Patrick’s defense, there was a big argument at work, as a little article flew by about how the Clinton Adminitration turned a blind eye toward Enron, and the problem festered until it exploded while the Bush administration was left holding the bag (and the blame).

In John’s defense, he is very much “center” in terms of his politics. He’s no fan of Clinton or Bush. He’s definitely no “leftist”.

I attribute the long-lasting success of Reaganomics, and the trickle down theory to a JOINT effort of a Republican White House working with a Democrat-dominated congress. They threw Reagan’s far-right suggestions out the window, while he vetoed ultra-liberal ideas… the result was a very-balanced government. One we enjoyed the results for decades to come.

(No I’m not throwing in Iran/Contra, and the Bitburg incident. That’s not the point.)

I don’t believe any *one* party can represent the people fairly. Until we get back to both parties evenly keeping each other in check, we’re gonna be miserable for decades to come.

But Eric — if John is center — that makes him left – in my perception.

Seriously, the Clinton administration made it possible for Andersen to ‘Audit’ their clients — get with it people — that was the problem.

And yes — no one party can represent the interests of all Americans. But what choice do they have? In order to get elected, we have a new party — once known as democrats — they are now, rep-lite. Stick to a side dems — maybe you can win one.

According to the logic that setting up the grounds to make it easier for people to commit crimes by abusing their trusted positions makes those politicians responsible, then any abuses by law enforcement officials via the Patriot Act should reflect poorly on this administration. Seems only fair. I’m sure most of the law enforcement abuses are going to take the route of the FBI busting down Steve Jackson Games than full-fledged political badgering of lefties.

Oh, I’m a lefty like Perot, Clinton, and Bush Sr. I can bat either way, but throw left.

Re: Enron. If we have to put the blame on anyone… Let it be the CEO’s who caused, exacerbated, and called on the favors of at least two administrations to bail them out of the mess they created. Fuck ‘em!

Re: Democrats/Reps Lite – They have no balls. You know it, and I know it, John knows it. If there is one prospect that horrifies me more than President Bush, it would be “President Gore”. He proved to be an imbecile and found himself in a web of lies. The fact that my Skid Row CD now has a “Parental Advisory” sticker, and the best song on the CD cut out… is all thanks to his meddling wife, whom I will never forgive for the PMRC.

How is it that I can walk into any bar, and overhear some drunk that makes more sense than Bush… yet the Dems can’t stir up a decent candidate? No. They’re too busy, taking surveys, trying to find out what we *want to hear*, and will insult our intelligence with a candidate/construct, run it up the flagpole and see if we salute… They may as well carry the slogan of “Vote for me, ‘cuz I’m not Bush… and well, that’s about it.” The Democrat Party is doomed.

Clinton’s Carpet Bombing of Iraq – Good! Iraq sent agents to assassinate Former President Bush in Kuwait. Saddam was being a little shit again. I can only imagine that if anyone would have a problem with the U.S. retaliating, it would be because of who it was that gave the strike order…

But while we’re there… let’s look at the big picture: (And Misty made this great point in a previous thread, as her husband was in the military at that time) What if Clinton had kept his word and hunted down “those responsible for the USS Cole, or the embassy in Tanzania”?

3,000 people would still be working in the WTC, four airplanes would have touched down in San Francisco, and several hundred military and civilian office workers would be alive in the Pentagon.

Instead, we the American people were more concerned with where Bill was sticking his dick.

It’s time we all started looking at the big picture instead of worrying about “who did what”.

Well, in my opinion, this whole conversation (as interesting as it was), went astray when we went from “Freedom of Speech” to which party screwed the country more…

By the way, has anyone noticed my clever little title? It comes from the Seinfeld Episode with the “Soup Nazi”

Oopsie… I just said “nazi” and screwed this thread by invoking Godwin’s Law.

By the international rules of UseNet… it now must be closed. (darn)

Thanks for playing everyone! It was a great and informative discussion as usual. :0)

(Comments are now closed. Shucks.)